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After reading this, and RisingRed's old thread, I made this post, in the Website Features section.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3123313105
This was basically as diplomatic as I could have possibly been, so if they ban me for that, then they really are just catering these forums for people who suck their dicks.
Your post is good, but 1) everyone might be afraid to reply to it, and 2) you're hoping/assuming that the Bliz CMs want to engage on a mature, intelligent level. (Or that they're even allowed to, as they must take the tone ordered by their bosses.)
I don't know anything about the other mods, but I've spoken to Bashiok fairly extensively (not recently) via IM and in person at Blizzcons, and he's a fairly nice guy, good sense of humor, more or less objective.. but he's never said one thing to me that could be considered even faintly critical of his bosses or his his company's decisions, or given any indication that he was sympathetic towards the reasons many fans disliked Blizzard's ever-more-corporate PR tilt.
It's not like he's brainwashed or something, but he's very much a company man, and if he disagrees with some decisions and things he has to do in his PR job he doesn't let that impact his behavior or thinking. Maybe he really is that fanboy and devout, or maybe he spends half his day gritting his teeth and dreaming of the day he can move out of the PR dept and up into game design/writing, but in his (and all the other CM's) public utterances, you'll find no cracks in the armor of corporate solidarity.
Bliz CMs are not there to communicate openly and honestly about any corporate or PR decision. They'll debate game features and give you their honest opinions on those topics, but when it comes to how they should do their jobs or what tone of debate they should allow in those forums... good luck. I think they will prove entirely unyielding, and will shut down any attempts to debate those issues with bans of whatever length they feel necessary.
They want their new Bnet forums to be for fanboys and loyal subjects. They'll be open to game debate, but if you criticize them, or blizzard itself, or make bobby kotick jokes, etc, you'll feel the ban hammer very quickly. And if that loses them some readers or customers, they do not care. They are fantastically profitable and they've got a never-ending supply of new fans joining up and signing up. And if that means all the real debate goes on fan forums like this one... they could are less. Their forums are an extension of their PR efforts, which are all about controlling the message and shaping the terms of debate. They'd rather exclude participants than attempt to win you over with the strength of their arguments.
Blizzard is a big enough company that they don't need to even consider playing by the same "it's essential to build a trusting and friendly relationship with our fans" rules that almost all other gaming companies do. They can do what they want, regarding fans, fansites, media, etc, and so they do. Not that they're utterly evil or anything, but they're selling a product and a message and a vision, and that's too large a crusade to pause and converse with the peasants their horses trample on the way to the Holy Land.|||Quote:
they really are just catering these forums for people who suck their dicks.
Sixen does sucking part for all of us, big time.|||Quote:
They want their new Bnet forums to be for fanboys and loyal subjects. They'll be open to game debate, but if you criticize them, or blizzard itself, or make bobby kotick jokes, etc, you'll feel the ban hammer very quickly. And if that loses them some readers or customers, they do not care. They are fantastically profitable and they've got a never-ending supply of new fans joining up and signing up. And if that means all the real debate goes on fan forums like this one... they could are less. Their forums are an extension of their PR efforts, which are all about controlling the message and shaping the terms of debate. They'd rather exclude participants than attempt to win you over with the strength of their arguments.
I agree with you what your saying here in regards to this awful new forum, however the bold part I highlighted I thought was quite ironic when applied to the old regular forum. That being one where even to this day gets filled with some pretty vile posts which are often not moderated at all. I will once again highlight that thread that existed for ages by some guy who was basically talking about raping a child. Or how for years people have commonly used the most racist language in their posts (and even reporting said post would have no affect).
Maybe it is just me, but I just can not fathom how anyone could be a Blizzard fanboy. Like and enjoy some games sure, but that company is the absolute worst managed POS game company short of EA. I really think the only way I would ever attend a Blizzard convention is if I could get a t-shirt made that literally said #(@*$ Blizzard.|||There are far worse companies than Blizzard, like Activision. Once their contractual limitations end (AFAIK it'll be 5 years after the Vivendi-Activision deal), Activision will shape blizz into an even more distorted entity than it is today.
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It's not like he's brainwashed or something
Teaching people to not feel guilty for the obviously flawed logic/opinions they have is essentially brainwashing. Blizz PR still deny through and through that the "B team" isn't working on wow, that they are just as talented as the founding developers...
I personally have been reprimanded several times in my career for being honest and to trash-talking the particular company I worked for. My customers loved me. My boss couldn't do anything more than slap me on the wrist because in the end, I was telling the truth AND I did my job well, very well. I may not end up being top-dog or get that phat promotion 5 years down the road (it'll be more like 10 years), but I'll have a clear conscious doing it.
Middle management and Upper management are trained professionals at swaying moral compasses, above all other skills.|||Just further proof that bannings are random and have no true process. I have been arguing against this guy in this thread and arguing pretty heavily in others. And I have yet to even receive a warning. I tend to save the niceties for here and lambaste the mouth breathers on the main forum.|||Quote:
They want their new Bnet forums to be for fanboys and loyal subjects. They'll be open to game debate, but if you criticize them, or blizzard itself, or make bobby kotick jokes, etc, you'll feel the ban hammer very quickly. And if that loses them some readers or customers, they do not care. They are fantastically profitable and they've got a never-ending supply of new fans joining up and signing up. And if that means all the real debate goes on fan forums like this one... they could are less. Their forums are an extension of their PR efforts, which are all about controlling the message and shaping the terms of debate. They'd rather exclude participants than attempt to win you over with the strength of their arguments.
Blizzard is a big enough company that they don't need to even consider playing by the same "it's essential to build a trusting and friendly relationship with our fans" rules that almost all other gaming companies do. They can do what they want, regarding fans, fansites, media, etc, and so they do. Not that they're utterly evil or anything, but they're selling a product and a message and a vision, and that's too large a crusade to pause and converse with the peasants their horses trample on the way to the Holy Land.
Maybe, but then again, maybe not. Only a fool isolates themselves into a closet surrounded by yes men. I can't help but feel this path Blizzard is following is going to lead to increasingly medicore offerings as they eliminate themselves (and their designers) from what the objective half of their audience wants. Maybe they'll be able to EA their way through forever, but given that their titles tend to be niche games, unlike EA's mainstream drek, it's in their best interest to be able to read what their niche is craving.|||Quote:
Maybe, but then again, maybe not. Only a fool isolates themselves into a closet surrounded by yes men. I can't help but feel this path Blizzard is following is going to lead to increasingly medicore offerings as they eliminate themselves (and their designers) from what the objective half of their audience wants. Maybe they'll be able to EA their way through forever, but given that their titles tend to be niche games, unlike EA's mainstream drek, it's in their best interest to be able to read what their niche is craving.
Well, obviously. These mistakes have been made by others before and they'll be made by others in the future. It's what happens when a certain corporate mindset overwhelms the thinking process in a game company...and the company does suffer in the long run.
EA is a great example of this sort of thing being done over and over. They buy a game company, milk it for some quick cash with a few games as the turn it into garbage. Discard and repeat. Unfortunately, you CAN make money in the short term doing this.
I'd say 6 or so years ago, Blizzard was a far, far better company. It's rather sad to see it slowly slide downwards in terms of quality. The process seems to be at a pace where most people don't notice it though.|||Quote:
or maybe he spends half his day gritting his teeth and dreaming of the day he can move out of the PR dept and up into game design/writing
Well, presumably Bashiok started would have started as a lowly customer support rep answering emails and GM tickets, maybe he moved up a few ranks in there and eventually became a support rep that posts on the forums (MicahW on the old Battle.net tech support forums), and moved up from there to become a CM for WoW (Drysc) and then moved on to become the main CM for Diablo 3.
So, I think as far as PR reps go he's near the top and I doubt he would have worked his way up there if he hated it.|||Quote:
Well, presumably Bashiok started would have started as a lowly customer support rep answering emails and GM tickets, maybe he moved up a few ranks in there and eventually became a support rep that posts on the forums (MicahW on the old Battle.net tech support forums), and moved up from there to become a CM for WoW (Drysc) and then moved on to become the main CM for Diablo 3.
So, I think as far as PR reps go he's near the top and I doubt he would have worked his way up there if he hated it.
Well, there have been instances of lateral movement into Blizzard's PR for forums. That said, I thin you are most likely right.
Unsurprisingly charming PR guy makes people like him even if they don't like what he says or does. Part of his job.|||Quote:
Maybe, but then again, maybe not. Only a fool isolates themselves into a closet surrounded by yes men. I can't help but feel this path Blizzard is following is going to lead to increasingly medicore offerings as they eliminate themselves (and their designers) from what the objective half of their audience wants. Maybe they'll be able to EA their way through forever, but given that their titles tend to be niche games, unlike EA's mainstream drek, it's in their best interest to be able to read what their niche is craving.
I don't think Blizzard stifles debate on game issues, though. Certainly not internally. They might continue to make excellent games, and perhaps even better games. Developers at smaller companies have to directly interact with fans and media all the time, while the Bliz developers are insulated and cocooned, and thus can spend all their time working on the game.
The issue in this thread is purely about their PR efforts via their new, tightly-moderated forums (and other fan and fansite interactions), and that's got little or nothing to do with the content of their games, or the input of their developers. I'd bet that the vast majority of their employees dislike their new forum policies the same way most fans do, but it's not their department, their job, or their problem.
Companies as big as Activision/Blizzard compartmentalize everything. It's not like Jay Wilson's going to go into a meeting with the PR and CM people and be like, "Hey, maybe you guys should allow a little more debate and criticism in the forums, and BTW, why aren't you inviting Flux to our media events, since he writes the longest/bestest reports on them?" Jay neither knows nor cares, and even if he did, he's got other more important things to worry about.
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