i remember when i started WoW i hated the BoE/BoP system but then after using the AH in the game i realized without it AH and dungeon runs will be useless. of course D3 and WoW are two different games so there should be a system of filtering out items from the Auction house
Yeah it definitely has its flaws and seems like a "bandaid fix" or the easy way out. We'll know soon enough what the plan is to combat inflation.|||Quote:
That is to even say a Windforce (as the only example) is the best weapon. Say its the best weapon for one of say... 5 viable builds, and we can use "Viable" loosely. Pvp may be vaery popular as LLD and Twinks. the other 4 spec's may want completly different gear. which would bring up the whole spread of "usless" gear to a whole new low. in D2 LOD some of the best items are blues. but they are very specific. Arreats is a Verry good barb helm, But its not, the best for most. the best is so crazy rare, people dont even strive for it. Dupes will be a non-issue, and a new crop of Best in Slot will arrive as frequently as the RMAH will finance. Diablo is a profitable franchise, and will retain support through out its life. But the RMAH could support mmo-type content patches, but if it doesnt, we can always look forward to an unlimited expansions.
/endrant
Which essentially forces people to use the RMAH, of course.|||Quote:
Think about it this way: Pretend Windforce is worth $100. Now pretend that you have a 5% chance to make an item that is actually better / worth more than Windforce using an ELITE UBER recipe that REQUIRES you to salvage WF. You're basically gambling $100 for a 5% chance to make $120 or $150, or even $200. That is a dumb gamble.It's a dumb gamble up to $2000 of a potential windfall from the craft. It's like gambling on 20:1 odds, with the return of 1:2. You're better off keeping the windforce.
A couple of points -
1. How do you know that the crafted 5% chance item will be worth $120 or $150 or $200? You've made these numbers up, but I would have thought that in a market economy the item would adjust itself to a price of around $2000 based on its rarity. That's pure speculation but at least it's my take on how a market would work, of course your calculation depends on which model you use etc etc. I'd like to add that I followed the D2 elite item market somewhat, and the super rare elite items went for absurd amounts, as it seemed people factored in more than just their utility/resource cost (people love collecting/showing off rare items, even if they are essentially useless).
2. Every single gamble in a casino is a dumb gamble by definition, but how many people regularly spend money in casinos worldwide in the hope of striking it rich? Humans are inherently irrational - why would D3 be any different? If I was hazarding a guess I would say you've had some formal economics training and you're making an assumption about rationality that lots of economic models make - only problem is that they are not always correct when put into practice.
I'm not having a go at your posts, I think that they are quite logical and insightful in some cases, and particularly your prediction about salvaging rares will *probably* hold some truth. It's just that we really can't know until the game comes out - a few little specifics can make BIG changes to how the market unfolds. I'll be holding off on the blizzard criticism until the game comes out
|||Quote:A couple of points -
1. How do you know that the crafted 5% chance item will be worth $120 or $150 or $200? You've made these numbers up, but I would have thought that in a market economy the item would adjust itself to a price of around $2000 based on its rarity. That's pure speculation but at least it's my take on how a market would work, of course your calculation depends on which model you use etc etc. I'd like to add that I followed the D2 elite item market somewhat, and the super rare elite items went for absurd amounts, as it seemed people factored in more than just their utility/resource cost (people love collecting/showing off rare items, even if they are essentially useless).
2. Every single gamble in a casino is a dumb gamble by definition, but how many people regularly spend money in casinos worldwide in the hope of striking it rich? Humans are inherently irrational - why would D3 be any different? If I was hazarding a guess I would say you've had some formal economics training and you're making an assumption about rationality that lots of economic models make - only problem is that they are not always correct when put into practice.
I'm not having a go at your posts, I think that they are quite logical and insightful in some cases, and particularly your prediction about salvaging rares will *probably* hold some truth. It's just that we really can't know until the game comes out - a few little specifics can make BIG changes to how the market unfolds. I'll be holding off on the blizzard criticism until the game comes out
His figures are made up, but I get the point he is trying to make. In other words he's saying that its a lose-lose situation either way - if the % chances are in favor of crafting (say for example there is a 75% chance of getting a good item and the item would be worth 2x more), than the system fails because it doesn't stop inflation (it makes it worse), as it simply swaps out one item for a better one. On the other side of the spectrum if the % chance of crafting the better item is really low, than no one will do it because you'd make a loss (in real money). Now let's pretend that the craft DEFINITELY gives you a better item with static stats, than again, inflation is only made worse.
Also, melting down 5 good items for 1 great item doesn't stop inflation, it only moves inflation up the item spectrum.|||Quote:
His figures are made up, but I get the point he is trying to make.
I think everyone understood what he was saying, but he forgot about item enchanting and wasn't thinking over the long term.
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if the % chances are in favor of crafting (say for example there is a 75% chance of getting a good item and the item would be worth 2x more), than the system fails because it doesn't stop inflation (it makes it worse), as it simply swaps out one item for a better one.
If crafting would have such a good chance of producing good items, then the enemies might as well just drop components in the first place, because players would salvage any item that drops every time. The devs said, that depending on your class and build some BiS item in the end-game will definitely come from crafting, so I think that in some cases you will indeed have a really good chance to get something amazing (if you have the schematic for it) by using your artisans. I dare say however, that most of the time that won't be the case.
Also, crafting will never stop inflation completely, it's only a way to regulate it, so that it doesn't get out of hand.
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On the other side of the spectrum if the % chance of crafting the better item is really low, than no one will do it because you'd make a loss (in real money).
See McTommo's second point. If that will be the only way to get a BiS item for your character, then people will do it, despite how unlikely it is to happen.
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Now let's pretend that the craft DEFINITELY gives you a better item with static stats, than again, inflation is only made worse.
As far as I know, there was no mention of crafted items with only static stats so far. They will have some fixed and some random affixes on them, but even the fixed stats will have random ranges.
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Also, melting down 5 good items for 1 great item doesn't stop inflation, it only moves inflation up the item spectrum.
After a while though that great item will slowly flood the market. At that point it becomes a target for salvaging and it's price and supply will stabilize. Uncontrollable inflation will only happen in D3, when the AH will be full of BiS Rare items with perfect stat rolls on them, which won't happen anytime soon after release (or at all), if D2 or any other ARPG is any indication. The expansion will reset the end-game economy well before that.
Oh and don't forget, that 5 good items will probably also mean 1 great item enchantment, which doesn't produce any new items at all.
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